Carson City Supervisors held a show-cause hearing Thursday to discuss the business license of a smoke shop that allegedly sold a methamphetamine pipe to a detective after previously being warned about it by the Sheriff’s Office.
During the hearing, one supervisor interrogated a Carson City Sheriff’s sergeant on her knowledge of drug consumption, state laws relating to paraphernalia and THC, and whether or not she knew what “hot knifing” was.
The board voted to suspend the business license for ten days.
Supervisor Maurice White was unhappy with the hearing and said it was not the board’s place to pass judgement on what he considered to be a criminal matter.
“We’re being asked to do something here today that rises to the level of one of the most serious decisions I’ve been made to ask, and I can tell you, we’re being asked to provide our opinion on a situation that involves felonies,” White said. “I really feel like before the courts have chimed in, we’re in the wrong place of order here. I would ask that this agenda item be set aside until after the courts have heard this and do what they’re gonna do.”
“This is a civil process, we’re not looking at criminal activity,” said Community Development Director Hope Sullivan, adding that the city can revoke a business license if the business is engaging in activity that is unlawful or against city code.
Based on White’s statement, Mayor Lori Bagwell clarified with Todd Reese, deputy district attorney, on whether they were conducting a criminal hearing or an administrative hearing, but White interrupted before Reese could answer.
“I’m aware we are not hearing a criminal action today, but this is rolling into a criminal action, and we are being asked to opine on what is eventually going to be a criminal court action,” White said.
Reese said they were conducting an administrative hearing. A criminal conviction could be used as evidence in an administrative case, but an administrative case does not need a criminal conviction, or even a criminal action to be heard.
What is needed is a “preponderance of evidence,” meaning the action is more likely than not (51% chance or above) to have occurred, he said, which is very different from what’s required in a criminal case.
Education and Prevention
Sheriff Ken Furlong said the sheriff’s office engages in activities designed to educate and prevent criminal or dangerous incidents. Similar to advertising their DUI checkpoint enforcement, CCSO wants to prevent community members from engaging in dangerous activity, he said.
“In this [smoke shop] case, there was an education and prevention effort that took place, and finally, an enforcement activity,” Furlong said. “We do this consistently to create partners in the community [with] good businesses.”
Bagwell asked if violations were seen when law enforcement first visited My Vape & Smoke Shop to provide education.
Sergeant Samantha Torres said she and her team visited the city’s smoke shops in July 2024 to provide education and warnings, She said while visiting My Smoke & Vape Shope, deputies observed methamphetamine pipes for sale. Deputies told the business the items were used for ingesting methamphetamine and illegal to sell, and the clerk removed them from shelves, Torres said.
When they conducted the compliance check in October, the pipes were still off the shelves, but instead were being sold out of the back room.
Initially, the agenda noted the sale of THCA vapes was an additional consideration for revocation. However, during the hearing Torres said when deputies first visited the store in July, education was not provided at that time on the illegal sale of the THCA vapes. Therefore, during the compliance check in October, arrests were not made related to their sale, and a warning was provided at that time.
When it comes to selling cannabis plants, there are two distinctions: plant matter that contains a certain level of psychoactive THC which is regulated as cannabis, and hemp.
A dispensary license is required to sell regulated cannabis which contains delta-9 THC, its main psychoactive ingredient. In 2018, there were discussions nationwide on if a “loophole” existed that could potentially allow the sale of THCA, as the law did not expressly forbid it by name.
A because a substance is considered as regulated cannabis rather than hemp based on delta-9 THC concentration. THCA only contains delta-9 after it is heated, leading to speculations on its legality.
While there is still misinformation online about THCA being “legal,” the Nevada Cannabis Compliance Board determined this is not the case due to THCA converting to delta-9 THC when heated. They determined because of this, the substance falls under the regulations governing other psychoactive cannabis products. The Board determined the calculation for THCA’s conversion for regulation in 2020.
On regulated cannabis, state law is clear: all products exceeding 0.3% delta-9 THC zn only be sold by state-licensed dispensaries to those aged 21 years or older.
Torres said children in the community have been able to purchase these vapes at local smoke shops, leading to “extreme highs” and she said it has become a danger to the community.
Are you telling me that every kitchen
has drug paraphernalia in it?
White’s interrogation
Despite White insisting the case should not be heard due to its criminal nature, he questioned Torres at length regarding her interpretation of criminal laws and how she’d determined a violation was committed.
He asked what warnings were provided to businesses and asked “how do you describe to somebody what a meth pipe is?”
Torres said under state law, if a seller is aware a device is used to ingest illegal drugs, continuing to sell that item is against the law. This is why education was provided first as opposed to an arrest, she explained.
“I’m curious how you determine that that’s the only substance that can be smoked in [the pipe],” White said.
Torres repeated that under state law, if a person knows that the device can be used to ingest an illegal substance, it qualifies as drug paraphernalia.
“Do you know what hot knifing is?” White asked.
Torres said she did not.
“That’s where you take a drug and place it on a butter knife, and you put those butter knives on your stove in your kitchen, and when they get hot you press them together and the smoke comes up and you breathe it in,” White said. “Are you telling me that every kitchen has drug paraphernalia in it?”
“I’m telling you that for this specific incidence, [the charge] is in accordance with Nevada law,” Torres said.
White asked if the detective told the clerk that they were planning to “go smoke meth” with the device when they purchased it. Torres said no, but the clerk verbally acknowledged she knew the devices were used specifically to smoke methamphetamine.
“So she knew it was used for meth because Carson City Sheriff’s Office told her it was?” White asked.
“[She said] she knew she was not allowed to sell it because of its use for consuming methamphetamine,” she said.
The clerk also told the detective they had to pay in cash because they weren’t allowed to sell the pipes, Torres said. White continued asking if the clerk would only know what the pipes were used for because of CCSO, and Torres said the individual also has a history of drug arrests, and would have also known from her prior history, along with the education, that the pipes were used for methamphetamine.
“So, was there residue in this ‘meth pipe?’” White asked.
“There doesn’t need to be, per the NRS,” Torres said.
“Was there residue in this device?” White pressed.
“No, it was a brand new pipe, being sold in the store,” Torres said.
White asked what education or warning were provided to shops regarding the THCA. Torres said the Cannabis Compliance Officer was brought to shops to provide education after they told Torres THCA was being sold in the city.
White asked what the concentration was within the vapes, and Torres said she didn’t know, and explained heating up the substance transforms it into a substance illegal to sell without a license. She said the compliance officer has the information, and she would inquire about it for the board.
White said any THC under 0.3% is not considered cannabis. “So, what is the violation?”
Torres reiterated that no arrests were made for the sale of THCA at the time of the compliance check, since education hadn’t yet been provided.
Sullivan said when the agenda was written, she’d been told education had been provided for both the methamphetamine pipes and the sale of THCA, which was why it had been included as a possible cause for revocation or suspension.
Owners claim no knowledge of CCSO outreach, did not fire clerk for illegal sale
My Vape & Smoke Shop co-owner Yahaira Wagner said she pulled the methamphetamine pipes, which she referred to as “oil burners,” from the shelves after she read about the compliance checks and education in the news. However, she claimed she never knew CCSO had come to her store.
She said after reading the news, she placed the pipes in her “office,” (an open area with no lockable door), and instructed her staff not to sell them.
Wagner said the issue with education outreach is that deputies and officers are not providing education to the owners, but instead are talking to employees.
“Clerks don’t have any jurisdiction at that business,” Wagner said. “It’s a job for them, it’s not their livelihood or something of their own. Education should target owners so we know 100%, and not to clerks, who don’t necessarily translate [the education] to owners.”
Bagwell asked if, as an owner, it was her responsibility to train her clerks on what is and is not acceptable to sell.
Wagner said when it came to the THCA, she “honestly had no idea,” and purchased it from a “reputable wholesaler,” who she expected would have told her if she was not allowed to sell it without a license.
Supervisor Stacey Giomi questioned Wagner on her timeline of events, and Wagner said she doesn’t know when the deputies came into the shop to provide education, but that she learned about it through the news “a few days later.”
She said she has no criminal background, and hadn’t known the “oil burners” were used for illegal drugs.
Giomi asked why she still had the pipes in the store in October if she took them down in July.
Wager said she owns two businesses and works full time, which she said is “no excuse, I should have taken them back to the wholesaler for credit as soon as I was not going to sell them.”
Giomi asked if the clerk who sold the pipe to the detective was terminated, and Wagner said no, the clerk is still employed.
“We’re a small business, right? I don’t know what the right thing to do, not to do — I’m still new to this,” Wagner said, and indicated she didn’t know how to handle a termination issue because they do not have an HR department like larger businesses.
She spoke to an attorney who told her she should have terminated the employee immediately, she said, but as of Thursday, the clerk was still employed.
Wagner said when she questioned her employees, none of them could say they’d been spoken to by CCSO, but she’d already learned from the news article that selling the items was illegal, leading her to pull the “oil burners” herself. She said she did not contact CCSO in an attempt to receive the education herself.
White asked Wagner if her customers told her or the clerks they were going to “go smoke meth with this device”?
Wagner said they had not.
Giomi asked how she could know what customers said to the clerks, and Wager said they have cameras and audio in the store.
Wagner also owns the convenience store next to the smoke shop, which sells liquor.
Bagwell said that because she is licensed to sell alcohol, Wagner understands the rules and regulations stating business owners are held responsible for their employees in regards to liquor sales, which Wagner acknowledged.
“So I’m a bit perplexed that you didn’t recognize you shouldn’t be selling this paraphernalia because it could be utilized for drugs,” Bagwell said.
“But I pulled it, as soon as I knew it couldn’t be sold,” Wagner said.
“But it was sold,” Bagwell went on. “I’m perplexed that if you told the staff member they could not sell these items, and now [that person] is potentially facing criminal charges, and your business license [is in jeopardy] — why you also did not fire the individual for selling a product you told them not to sell … They put your business at risk, and they’re still employed.”
The clerk’s statement that she had to sell the pipes for cash because they weren’t allowed to sell them was also issue for Bagwell. She asked how the clerk could have gotten the impression that she could go into the office, get a pipe, and then sell it for cash.
Wagner said she didn’t know, and they’ve now been monitoring the cash transactions “24/7.”
Bagwell asked Wagner if she thinks there should be a penalty for what happened, and Wagner said she is a “firm believer in God,” and believes in second chances.
“If it were to go my way, I think this was enough for us, but I’d take anything to get that second opportunity,” she said, adding that she is in charge of purchases so will make sure this never happens again.
Deliberation
Most supervisors agreed that while the sale had been a violation, after learning the circumstances surrounding it, they no longer believed a full cancellation of Wagner’s license was in order.
Giomi said it’s the business owner’s obligation to know what they can and cannot sell, especially in a business where “what you offer can harm people.” He said there’s a management issue after not terminating the clerk, as well as the fact that Wagner kept the product in her office despite knowing it was illegal. He said that he believed Wagner was taking it “too lightly.”
While he at first believed the license should be cancelled completely, after the hearing, he no longer felt that way.
“I’m not comfortable just saying good luck, do better last time,” he added. “I feel a suspension is in order, the question is the length.”
Supevisor Lisa Schuette agreed, and said the clerk selling the pipes for cash was “troubling.” She said it bothered her that while Wagner pulled the pipes from the shelf, they’d remained in an open, accessible area.
However, Schuette asked only for a ten-day suspension, which was seconded by Supervisor Curtis Horton.
White said he could not make a “single finding” that would support the suspension, and would not be voting in favor of it.
Bagwell said the fact that Wagner had removed the pipes from the shelves was the only reason she was not in favor of a full license revocation, adding, “This is your second chance. That’s how I look at this action today: you know we’re serious, [but] we’re not taking your license to put you out of business.”
Bagwell said she believes this length of suspension is consistent to other violators of these codes, which included banning businesses from selling alcohol for ten days after also failing compliance checks.
Supervisors voted 4-1 with White voting against to suspend the license for ten days.
